Head 'pain'...not head ache

Last night I was sitting and watching tv with my hubby. Out of nowhere I felt like someone hit my head with a crow bar on the right side of my brain.It was odder because only two differnt sections of it. A friend who is a nurse said the brain can't spasm. It happend twice within a few minutes. I do not get scared unless its my husband's driving or snakes, but this deeply scared me! Then my throat had spasms. Any idea?

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Permalink Reply by Ellen S on October 6, 2009 at 11:18pm: Hi Deanna,

Of course you know we aren't doctors and can't diagnose or tell you what to do, but I would suggest that you look up Ice Pick Headache and see if it sounds like what you experienced. It is also known as Primary Stabbing Headache. Here are a couple of interesting links that may help you:

OUCH UK
Handbook of Headache excerpt

I know many dystonia patients react badly to a startle of any kind. Ditto with stress. As someone who suffers from these so called "ice pick headaches" I can attest to the fact that they startle you and can make you wince in pain, and stress comes from simply dreading another one. This may be triggering dystonic spasms. If you have a question though, you should see your doctor.

Hoping this is helpful info...

~a fellow Dystonian - Ellen S; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by cookie48 on October 12, 2009 at 6:35pm: Hello everyone
I myself have had this to happen to me several times in 1 day all of a sudden a pain would hit me in the left side of my head out of nowhere, and would stay there for about 15-20 minutes at a time so i know what you're talking about. To date
my doctor hasn't suggested what this may be coming from or what to do about them, even though i suffer from migraines, this pain is not like the migraine pain it's more like someone has stabbed me with a shart object.
Anyone have any advice or idea what this could be coming from. PLEASE RESPOND; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ellen S on October 13, 2009 at 11:59am: Hi cookie48 - please see my above post. Primary stabbing headache is quite common, especially among Migraineurs and those with Cluster Headaches. If they are a serious problem, many doctors help you by treating them with Indomethacin - an NSAID that seems to work on them in a way that is unlike other medicines. Melatonin, Lyrica and Neurontin may also help prevent them in some patients. Primary stabbing headache is not Migraine. It is another headache disorder altogether.

Another term for it is "jabs and jolts". My own experience is closer to that of jolts of electricity going off inside my head. It is not occipital neuralgia (this involves the nerves in the scalp in the back of the head and in the shape of a ram's horn on each side of the head). It is also not Trigeminal neuralgia, which is shooting pains across areas of the face.

Some additional links that may be helpful:

Johns Hopkins
Healia
Wellsphere; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by hopeful on October 13, 2009 at 6:13pm: I get electrical shocks going up back of head like fire works and once they reach destination. They explode and radiate numbness. Sometimes feels like sand runs down the back of my neck.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ellen S on October 13, 2009 at 7:28pm: Hopeful,

Again, please understand we're not doctors and can't diagnose you. Only a doctor can do that, okay? Any time you have new or unexplained chronic pain, especially in the head, you should get to see your doctor.

This sounds like Occipital Neuralgia to me. Occipital neuralgia comes from the nerve in the back of your head firing. Sometimes it fires like that because it's being stimulated, sometimes it fires all on its own. The numbness and sand feeling is the key for you.

I never experienced occipital neuralgia myself until AFTER they tried to do several nerve blocks to help my Migraine situation. Now I do get it and it's terribly painful. For me, it feels like an electrical shock type shooting pain (kind of like fireworks) from the back of my head to my temple. Sometimes it feels like someone has poured hot water on me, which is unnerving to say the least. Sometimes it feels cold, like ice water is being poured on me. Thankfully it doesn't hit very often.

I've nerve issues in other parts of my body that feel kind of like vibration. I could imagine that it is possibly sand being poured on me, so it might be the same thing. Again, you really should have a doctor look at you and diagnose you. There are treatments for neuralgias, especially occipital neuralgia.

Some of my nerve issues make me itch uncontrollably, but for no reason - just out of the blue. I'm told that pain receptors and itch receptors are nearly the same, so I suppose I should feel lucky at feeling the itch vs. more pain, but sometimes it's too powerful for me to ignore and I scratch. It's actually numb tho, so scratching does nothing, but I can't help it anyway! A simple touch can send me into uncontrollable scratching.

I hope this is helpful.

For additional reading you might want to see:

Occipital Nerve Blocks
imigraine.net presents Occipital Neuralgia
RainGem presents Occipital Neuralgia and a short informative video on nerve decompression
Diana Lee talks Occipital Neuralgia and nerve blocks; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by hopeful on October 14, 2009 at 5:51pm: Thanks Ellen, I just figured it was part of the dystonia.
LOVE&PEACE hopeful; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ellen S on October 15, 2009 at 10:40am: hopeful,

It sure can be! When muscles irritate the nerves, they can fire uncontrollably. This is why nerve decompression surgery is often performed on those with neuralgia. If you look at RainGem's link I gave right above, it tells all about it. Exciting stuff! A friend of my mom's had decompression surgery a few years ago, with remarkable results.

Here is another link to a different approach to a similar problem when the neuralgia pain actually originates in the neck but is felt in the head. Occipital Neuralgia: Dr. Jho's C-2 Microdecompression, A Novel Trea... At the bottom of the link is a great explanation of Neuralgia to read.

A while ago, I received blocks in several nerves. They were trying to see if something called Radiofrequency Ablation of the nerve might be an option for me. In this procedure, the nerve is damaged by a special instrument so it no longer randomly fires. You can see a discussion I began on this procedure here at MyMigraineConnection.com: Cervical Radiofrequency Neurotomy (Ablation) for Migraine and Heada... If you're interested in reading some patients' experiences with this, you won't want to miss reading all the comments!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by hopeful on October 18, 2009 at 3:08pm: Ellen
You seem so educated. I went to your sights very interesting. I go to Dr tuesday I will mention my neck and head to him. Thanks again hope your feeling well. LOVE&PEACE hopeful; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ellen S on October 18, 2009 at 3:37pm: I'm so glad you have a doc's appt coming up soon. Please let us know how it goes. ((Hugs)) and I hope you get some results!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Lymph Man on October 20, 2009 at 9:52pm: This spasms can be due to limited circulation in the area where your blood becomes overly acidic and can constrict and tighten the membranes that surround your brain (meninges). This acid can spasm the meninges and constrict it . As circulation improves in a while it goes away till the next time it is overly acidic. The acid spasmed the throat too. You can be overly acidic and not even know it. The lymphatic system plays a large role in removing acid waste from the body and brain. There are lymph vessels in the meninges, if they become congested for any reason, acid waste and fluid builds in the membranes that surround the brain. Be well hydrated with alkaline water, deep breathing and move your blood with some light exercise. Don't just walk do some exercises that raise your arms over your head this improves lymph flow in the neck and head. Learn about acid-alkaline balance, how to make your body more balanced. Good Luck; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ellen S on October 25, 2009 at 10:50am: Hey Lymph Man, thanks for the good general health tips. You're very correct that balance is vital to our health. I also agree that the lymph system is highly ignored. It's probably one of the next big health frontiers.

However, it's important that people understand that Dystonia is not related to meninges or any vascular spasms that might occur there. Dystonia is a disorder in which the basal ganglia portion of the brain is malfunctioning. This malfunction can come from many different reasons, but it boils down to the fact that your brain is on auto-pilot telling your muscles to do things beyond your control. The spasms do not come from the muscles themselves. The muscles are only doing what they are being told to do.

Also, the jabs and jolts, or ice-pick sensation of primary stabbing headache is extremely focalized. Pinpoint accuracy, not widespread pain as would occur should the meninges be able to actually spasm. Physicians have told us that it is related to the trigeminal nerve branches/ganglions/roots, not the meninges which is the membrane that covers and protects the brain inside the skull. Here is a fine illustration that shows the location of the Trigeminal nerve roots: University of Manitoba, CAN and below is an amusing video illustration that's a fun way to learn about the meninges. It's called the Meninges Song; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Lymph Man on October 27, 2009 at 2:17am: Hello Ellen S, You are right the traditional accepted understanding of Dystonia does not talk about the meninges or vascular components. But the lymphatic system role in removing dead cells is missed in diseases like dystonia. I published a book, An Undetected Acid-Alkaline Imbalance that explains new science of the lymphatic system and how it is missed in the idea of disease. All tissues and structures in the body must be cleaned of cellular waste (parts of dead cells), 500 million cells die daily in the body. Even the basal ganglia (striatum, pallidum, substantia nigra, and subthalamic nucleus) must have its dead cells removed or it fills the structures limiting their ability to send messages to each other or along the nerve pathways, this is one way miscommunication between nerves and muscles begins. Two layers of the meninges and the extracranial blood vessels have lymphatic vessels and play a large role in removing excess proteins from the brain and the basal ganglia. Because the lymphatic system is an emerging science it is rarely used in the understanding of most diseases, it is the next frontier in medicine. I have worked with the meninges for over 14 years, the meninges can definitely tighten or spasm due to acid waste building in the dura and pia mater. If one part of the dura or pia are congested acid waste can build in the area creating focalized or pinpoint pain as the membranes tighten and pull on attachments to the cranium. Acid waste (dead cells) are the problem and the lymphatic system plays a large role in removing them.; ▶ Reply to This